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PolitickerNV Partners
May 7, 2008 - 11:39am
News
Ron Paul Circus: from the operatives
By Wally EdgeI would get carpal tunnel trying to put this ongoing Ron Paul Circus into one post, so I had always planned to spread it into several different posts with different aspects of the fiasco. A circus does have three rings, after all.
The original plan was to have the candidate and his views first, then the operatives, and then the supporters. But recent on-the-record correspondence with Jeff Greenspan, the Regional Director of the Ron Paul campaign has vaulted him ahead of his candidate in the pecking order.
I started with insider quotes from my team of sources, and was amazed at how level-headed the GOP'ers were in light of how the convention turned out to be so bitter. In their own words:
"The way the convention moved overshadowed a lot of good. Record turnout, more than 200 applications to be national delegates, excited membership. The biggest thing glossed over is that so many of the Ron Paul delegates are new to the process and most want to help John McCain, Jon Porter, Dean Heller and the like. We also have a lot of new Mitt Romney delegates who want to do the same.
The difference is that a small minority of Ron Paul delegates somehow thought this was a UFC match rather than a state convention. They fed off of Mike Weber who always tries to rile things up but this time had a group of people willing to follow blindly. The whole process is a shame because it unfairly lumps normal Ron Paul supporters in with a small few who fail to bathe, treat others with respect, follow rules, understand politics or care about the results of their actions. What should have been a great day of reward for Mitt Romney's delegates who worked hard and won, Ron Paul's delegates who worked hard and performed well and John McCain supporters - most of whom worked for Paul or Romney - turned into an embarrassment for anyone who can complete a sentence and supports Ron Paul. What a shame. Hopefully when all is over normal, honest, sensible people will prevail and hopefully that coalition comes from supporters of all campaigns."
"When it comes down to it, Nevada doesn’t have 34 delegates, they have 34 votes. Those votes should go to who Nevada wants to be the nominee. Ron Paul got 14% of the vote in the caucus, 14%. This is roughly 500 votes more than McCain and that is all. Considering every other Republican Presidential candidate in Nevada’s caucus has endorsed McCain, including Romney who won our state and was there to speak on his behalf, would it be fair in any way for Paul to get more than 14% of the delegates, if that? Delegates have always been people who have worked hard for the Party or been contributors, so I am just unsure as to why people who were attending their first ever Republican convention should be considered as delegates to the National Convention when party faithful who have been volunteering and contributing for twenty years are being turned down. Doesn’t make much sense for the Party."
"I think as far as the Ron Paul enthusiasts – they have some bad apples ruining the bunch. Most of us agreed with most of Dr. Paul’s message during his speech at the convention. I would bet that Sen. McCain would agree with most of the message. But it is clear that he will not be the messenger … or at least the nominee … of our Party heading into November. He ran. He was included in dozens of debates and forums … and I don’t think he won a single state.
I hope those supporters of his will continue to stay involved in politics and that they will not only support our Republican nominee in November, but that they will support our Republicans down the ballot, as well. For those who have and continue to stir up trouble for the sake of causing chaos … I have no comment. Besides, my words won’t influence them in the slightest, and I can live with that."
This is the response from three different top GOP operatives who were each asked for their insider opinion, and were promised that their quotes would not be attributed so that they could be as brutally honest as they wanted. Their response is hardly caustic. If anything they sound saddened by the shenanigans of the Ron Paul brigade.
During this, a back and forth between fellow blogger Chuck Muth and Ron Paul Regional Director Jeff Greenspan turned ugly. You can follow the details of this on Muth's blog.
Chuck Muth does not treat anyone with kid gloves when he feels strongly about something, but he is not the type to make things up. The worst I would accuse him of is being blunt with his opinions, which can make for a good read. But the exchange turned so bitter and so personal that I honestly did not believe that any political operative would be so stupid as to actually put the things into an e-mail that were on Muth's blog. So I had to investigate.
At this point, I had been corresponding with Jeff Greenspan about all of the convention goings on, and we had exchanged lengthy and civil e-mails until I asked him about the dust-up with Muth. All of a sudden Mr. Greenspan turned from passionate defender of Dr. Paul and the Constitution into the green-pea soup spewing demon from The Exorcist.
In his own words:
"Chuck Muth is a character assassin and nothing more. You can show him film of something and have three people swear to it and it wont matter. He'll write toward whatever agenda he has in his mind regardless of the veracity or fact checking.
By the way. Wally Edge = Chuck Muth. Hi Chuck. Only you can come up with "this is taking on a life of its own." You did it on your blog. What a coward going "undercover". Nice try."
That erased any doubt in my mind as to whether Mr. Greenspan is capable of putting stupid, paranoid, conspiracy-crazy things in writing. His open and unabashed megalomania is amazing, and after this we've gone back and forth now a few more times and his e-mails get more snippy at each turn. It's kind of funny to watch him beat up a pseudonym. It must feel good to for the big man to give Casper a good butt-whooping.
I've written to Mr. Muth and have asked him to take the same line on this that I always do when people guess who I am: I will neither confirm nor deny any guess. I could be anyone, except maybe Jeff Greenspan at this point.
But so far the operative scoreboard reads like this:
GOP Establishment Operatives: level-headed and logical
Ron Paul Operatives: stark raving lunatics
More to follow. Much, much more.
Syndicate
POKERFACE LIVE INTERVIEW
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I disagree
The people of Nevada overwhelmingly voted for Mitt Romney, who is no longer in the running. The two people who are still in the running are McCain and Ron Paul. Ron Paul beat McCain by a small margin. I personally feel that the remaining votes should be almost evenly split between Ron Paul supporters (20) and McCain supporters(19). Although it's true that Mitt Romney has announced his support of McCain that doesn't mean that your average man on the street in Nevada agrees with him. Other people might see the matter differently. That's why caucuses are held. The Ron Paul supporters obviously felt strongly about Ron Paul and they showed up, were well organized, and determined to give the state over to Ron Paul. If McCain really has the nomination sewn up, what does it matter? Most Ron Paul supporters just want to see Ron Paul speak at the convention. If the GOP party just extended an invitation for him to speak half of the Ron Paul supporters might have stayed at home.
Put up or shut up
OK Ron Paul fanatics - you've got a little over a week to show you're not just talk and teach a lesson to Beers and Muth. Want to show them? You need to run candidates against Senator Beers (Clark Senate District 6) and against Muth's hand-picked boy Jon Ozark in Assembly District 21. Here's how: In Senate 6, file someone as an AIP or Libertarian. Beers will lose the general election - guaranteed. In AD21, file a Republican in the primary and Ozark will lose (the incumbent there is also named Beers, but its a different dude that Muth HATES). To be on the safe side, also file a Libertarian and an AIP there too in case Ozark gets to the general election. If you guys are as organized as you say, and not full of hot air, you'll get these candidates filed by the deadline of next Friday. If you don't, Muth and Beers will be laughing at you.
Another attempt to
Another attempt to marginalize Ron Paul supporters. Shame on you. I am not worried we will have out day soon! We are organized and mobilized, not to mention well funded!! This is just the start, and events like this our going to be the norm until we can get some of these chairman people voted out! Lets do it~!
What is the purpose of convention?
The caucus and convention process is supposed to help a party select its nominee by voting for representatives (delegates) at each level. Party rules which turn this representative process into an arbitrary perk bestowed by privileged insiders would seem to fly in the face of that representative model.
The Ron Paul supporters at that assembly were all Republicans who were elected by other Republicans at least twice, and dedicated enough to stay with the process up to that level. They represent interests in the Republican Party every bit as legitimate as any other GOP faction.
One can point to rude or unpleasant personalities in any group. Tarring the entire group with those characterizations is a "biased sample" fallacy at best, and a smear at worst – no matter which group you attack.
The decision to filibuster the meeting, then recess before delegates were selected, may well be tolerated in the rules, but it cedes any high ground that group might have claimed. Either these delegates are duly elected Republican State Delegates, or they're not. If the body votes to change the rules, and that vote prevails, then the rules should change. If the body votes for delegates to send to the next higher convention, then those are the delegate that should go.
Representation is not reserved for only an anointed few.
From the national GOP Party Rules:
"BE IT RESOLVED, That the Republican Party is the party of the open door. Ours is the party of liberty, the party of equality of opportunity for all and favoritism for none."
Let's see if Nevada's Republican leadership can live up to those words.
You have no clue what you're talking about
You have no clue what you're talking about. If the results have been decided why have a convention? To put on a little dog and pony show? There are many Repulicans who have serious issues with John McCain (and Mitt Romney for that matter). Why shouldn't they be allowed to legally use the convention to advance their argument.
If you knew anything about elections, you would know that the popular vote was a beauty contest, yet here you are stuck on 14% and 13%. The delegate nomination process has its own rules and processes and that's the only thing that counts.
What you seem to fail to want to mention is that the only ILLEGAL thing committed that evening was having the chair, Mr. Bob Beers, call a recess without having it be subjected to a vote. The chair was and is in clear violation of the rules and for that alone he should be tossed out.
Now, you could go on with your whining about Ron Paul supporters, but you'd be doing yourself a favor to realize that in knowing the rules and using them to their advantage, they're keeping the torch of liberty alive and well in our Republic. At least, they're not a bunch of dinausors, yes-people tugging the party line and going by whatever is being fed to this ignorant population by the mainstream media.
The only shame is on you for writing such a baseless article.
Assholes anonymous called
Wally dear, you missed another meeting.
GENERAL ELECTION 2000?
Based on your analysis - Al Gore should have been our president since he got most of the popular votes. That was not what happened, right? George W had the most number of electoral vote and won the presidency...this is the way our system is designed. At the Republican Convention in September, if most of the delegates wake up by then, will vote for Dr. Paul and he very well be our party's nominee. Fiscal responsibility, limited government, sound money, no nation building, no inflation, no amnesty, protect our civil liberties...that's all we are asking for.
Process matters
Wally,
What is the point in having a caucus system, whereby representatives are elected by their neighbors to represent them at the County and State Conventions, if the whole thing is rigged at the end by a nominations committee that decides who becomes a delegate to the national convention?
What is the point in following Robert's Rules of Order if the Chair of the Convention can simply ignore it and recess the convention illegally when the Party Leaders are confronted with a result they do not agree with?
What is the point in having a State Republican Convention if the votes of the delegates aren't acknowledged by party leaders, and the delegates aren't encouraged to voice their opinions on how the party should move forward?
The attitude reflected in the anonymous quotes that you've published is the problem. Call me crazy, but I think the Nevada State GOP leadership should represent Nevada Republicans, not the RNC.
I went to the Nevada State Republican Convention to have some impact on how the party operates for the next two years.
I was elected to represent my neighborhood at the precinct caucus on Jan 19th. I made it clear to everyone at the Jan 19th precinct caucus that I would support Ron Paul to the bitter end.
My participation in the caucus process, and the caucus process itself, did not end on Jan 19th despite what everyone thinks.
So long as I am a member of the Republican party, and I am allowed to participate in the process...I will vote according to my own conscience. If this irritates party insiders, and the State GOP leadership I don't particularly care...It's my party too and I have the right to voice my opinion.
UFC MATCH?
You're a bit slow for most. THIS IS A UFC MATCH!!! We are chalenging the Republican base to be.....Republicans again. Pure and simple!! The one party system we have been handed is broken It is now the Republicrats. To unite under McCain for the sake of unity is pointless. How does one be principled when one is forced to aquiesce (sp?) their principles?
McAmnesty is just that. McAngry is scary.
His policies are Bush. Interventionism is highly counterproductive. But it's Ok. You been told who ought to win so vote ye shall, the way you are told.
Critical thinker my arse.
Ok, let's use your logic -
Ok, let's use your logic -
Ron Paul gets 14% of the delegates
McCain gets 13% percent of the delegates.
The rest of the delegates go unawarded because all the other candidates have dropped out.
Is that what you want?
Or just give the most delegates to the remaining person who won the state - Ron Paul.
The last election is past history
Buddy your messed up!
No one caused any scene at the convention until the Platform came up for a vote. Then some people got hot about, but everyone got mad when Beers told us Bye Bye.
You make your points well but you mistakenly assume what happened in January is it.
Well it is history and the electorate has changed, and it has not been in McCain's favor.
Grow up and get over it. Ron Paul is four times more popular than he was in January and based on the GOP communications circulating here and in Washington the RNCC knows this.
Lead Follow or get out of the way!
Wally's Mom, funniest comment ever
This one is good. Very, very good. Hey, if you dish it out, you have to be able to take it.
But you're wrong. My meetings are on Tuesdays, and I'm only on step three. But next week I buy Greenspan a fruit cake and apologize for hurting his feelings.
Mom, you're welcome back here anytime.
Wally Edge from NV = Chuck Muth!
This thing is taking on a life of its own!
In Muth and Beers' faces
OK - so who is going to file to run in Senate 6 and Assembly 21 - or are we all talk?
Patriots needed
Wanted: Republicans, Libertarians and American Independent Party members to run in Senate 6 and Assembly 21 - use this link to see if you live in either (it costs $100 cash to file to run - file at the Clark County government center on 500 South Grand Central Parkway):
http://mapserve.leg.state.nv.us/website/lcb/viewer.htm
To be fair
Paul should get 14% of the delegates McCain should get 14% of the delegates and the the remaining delegates should be chosen by blind lottery from the list of remaining delegate applicants.
Ron Paul Circus
What a pitiful defense of a GOP run amuck and trying to blame it on Dr. Paul's supporters. The RNC will no one to blame but themselves when they self-implode in the upcoming months. As a staunch supporter of our Constitution, I find it appalling that the old-timers Republican party members find themselves in opposition to our country's "rule of law". God Bless America, and God Bless Ron Paul and all of his PASSIONATE SUPPORTERS!!!
Spinning the Laundry
RE: The GOP's comment "The biggest thing glossed over is that so many of the Ron Paul delegates are new to the process and most want to help John McCain, Jon Porter, Dean Heller and the like."
That's not only far from "level headed," that travels well beyond the absurd into Denial Country. No Ron Paul supporter wants to "help" clueless Bush-buddy 100-years-of-war McCain, and you know it and the GOP knows it.
The truth is that the GOP is running scared. They don't realize that Ron Paul just wants to give them their country back and take away the big bad fascist regime.
But there's a good Wally, just keep putting out that disinformation and maybe you can get a job with Fox News.
Truth be Told...
The GOP and RNC are really fair...here's an example. http://youtube.com/watch?v=xWuhAyJyfZQ
wally, you're a total idiot.
wally,
you're a total idiot. plain and simple.
A blind man who leans
A blind man who leans against a wall imagines that it's the boundary of the world. 张家界旅游
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